fun from the art department
Man!!!! Yesterday’s post fired up a lot of heat, so hopefully this in-office joke will cool down all of the fire and make you chuckle a little instead. The ship was going through a lot of size changes in the middle of production, and at one time it was close to a mile long, so for a quick laugh in the art department, this little drawing was created.
Eavesdropping with Johnny 
I didn’t like the new film very much. For various reasons, most of them ultimately personal to me and not anything I feel the need to burden others with. That’s fine, the film wasn’t made for me. In fact I’m sure I share them with others, and you could probably combine all the common ones together to form this kind of gestalt pre-reboot Trekkie of the kind ridiculed by the Onion, slating the new film as fun and watchable.
And, I get the in-film reasons why this ship is different. That any plans for the Constitution-class that might have been on the drawing board in 2233 would get chucked out and something much larger put in place, delaying the whole project ten years. But there’s just something about it that rankles, all the same. The Budweiser-plant engine room doesn’t help! But I’m not going to lose any sleep over it – I have an eight-week-old daughter for that. . .
I think the size relative to Canada is wrong.
@Lee. I’ve been ambivalent about the movie also. I thought it was entertaining but he altered so many things in the Trek universe that I felt it detracted from the fact that this was about Star Trek.
The bridge felt like a toy shop to me for instance (what was it with those joy-sticks?). The engineering section was an obvious, obvious, obvious beer factory…
I think the size issue we’re all debating is a manifestation of a lot of this discontinuity we feel about the movie in general.
Don’t get me wrong, I still liked it, but it felt like a stretch to me.
I finally saw it this week, and instead of hating it, I found I just didn’t care. It was like watching a STARSHIP TROOPERS flick or something but with different character names. It went on forever and I didn’t like the performances or the visual effects and I did as expected utterly despise the sets … but I thought some of the sound efx were really nice, except for the red blobby sound.
The ship is ludicrous sized, so the warp effect should look like ludicrous speed, a la SPACEBALLS (a picture I enjoyed roughly as much and have never seen again.)
I can see how one might not like the film for all the reasons you mention, but the visual effects poor? Seriously can’t figure how anyone could find fault with the visual effects….
I enjoyed the movie, though I agree that it’s not perfect. That aside…
I LOVE this fantastic artwork!! I now see the problem…it seems that everyone thinks it’s 2379 meters when it is intended to be scaled up to 2379 miles!! HA!!!!
Fun stuff, John! 🙂
P.S. Now the “brewery” begins to make sense; that’s a lot of ship and probably more than a few bars on board! 😉
Hehee. People take this very serious don’t they.
Yeah, they take it a bit too serious.
John, that’s friggin’ hilarious. I love that picture. Thanks for posting that, I needed a good laugh. 😀
I find it funny that Engineering is a brewery and Scotty is in charge of it. 😀 Either way still a great movie and the whole size thing is irrelevent to me.
Yeah, that’s about right, eh. 😀
LLP,
deg
Heya John! Be sure to check your email. I was talkin’ with Rob Bonchune and he asked me to hook you guys back up, as he wants to says hi and catch up. I emailed you his message for me to send to you, with his email cc’ed.
Gimme a call when you get a chance too, just to chat, as we haven’t in a while. G.I. Joe is comin’ Monday in Netflix, eh. 😉
Later brother,
deg
Great minds and all, eh? I was expecting my Netflixed G.I. Joe on Tuesday, but just found out that my wonderful, fabulous, yet absent-minded daughter forgot to put the flicks in the mail yesterday…Wednesday I’ll have one! 🙂
I’ll be sure and watch in quick and get it back, dead dear. I’m still waitin’ to see BSG: The Plan too, eh. 😉
PLL,
deg
dead dear? darn typo-demons. dea-dear, eh. 😉
PLL,
deg
I saw The Plan and liked it so much, I hung onto it a few days more and watched it again. 🙂 Matt B has one now.
I laughed out loud when I read in my email “dead dear”!! HA! OOOT! I knew there would be another one right behind correcting it. 😀
Do you remember when you see a commercial that is soooo stupid that you think: “How did they come with such a ludicrous idea?!”
Well, throwing a lot of ideas is what creatives do, the good, the bad and…yes: the ugly.
But They are not entirely to blame, because in the end of the process there’s always a “suit” that says: “I like this one, go ahead with it!”.
And, believe you me, they don’t always pick the best one.
This is a clear example of worse case scenario.
The problem is that no one has manhood enough to say “Aah, see, Mr. Big Kahoona, are you stupid or something? This was just a joke the guys and I were playing. Nobody thought that you’d be seriously considering it! Al, I owe you 50 bucks!”
And so the crime is perpetrated.
Here’s a cautionary tale: creatives of the world: that idea, yes, that one, which you know is the most idiotic one, please keep it in the bottom drawer with bolt and chain, because it is very probable that it’s gonna be the one getting through.
Bottom line: just like advertising, they wanted us to go on debating and talking about it 24/7, and they succeeded.
I knew it!! Hahaha! That’s too funny! Hey, if you can’t laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at, right? 😉
*On seeing this picture…….The Death Star runs away at the speed of light* 😀
Hm. About three-fourths the diameter of the Moon. It could probably raise tides in the oceans of any planet it orbited.
*gigglesnort* Luvverly job, Mr. Eaves!
With regards to the new Trek movie, I watched it the other night again on DVD and loved every minute – right down to Kirk munching an apple during the Kobayashi Maru sequence. Anyone else remember what Kirk was doing in the Genesis Cave when the mattter came up?
Smashing.
I love Trek in almost all it’s guises – Enterprise fell flat for me in a lot of ways, and I’m really glad to see the concept of it bootstrapped back into vibrant life, instead of trailing off with a whimper and a Holodeck Episode. So they hosed the ship scaling in the new movie – maybe they’re just using the Bloater Drive from Bill the Galactic Hero? 😉
In the theater on opening day, I smiled and elbowed my daughter so hard she glared at me, then noticed the apple and context and smiled back. 😀
Once again we have an inaccurate comparison – the map appears to use Albers projection, so the shape of the continent distorted and… er… I’ll get my coat! 🙂
3D modeler’s question: are the proportions of the ship? correct
Do you have more size charts from 2007?
The size of the NeEnt might not completely jive with everyone. But I’m glad they kept the basics intact: Saucer, two nacelles and an engineering section.
We should all remember that Trek as we knew it was dying. We fans became so obsessed with “canon” that the studios were stifled. (I mean, what were all those hatemails regarding the ST:Enterprise intro music all about! C’mon!)
The TNG movies pandered to the needs of the fans, but sucked at the box office because no one else went to see them! You had to be a well verse Trekker to get a lot of the references in those movies. This discouraged people.
When they cancelled ST: Enterprise, I thought that was it. Trek would be doomed to re-runs and the occasional christmas special DVD collection with a few more artist renders chucked into the special features section.
When I read someplace that the new top boss at Paramount hated Trek and promptly ordered it’s sets destroyed and models and costumes sold, I was convinced the end of Trek was here.
However, instead of letting Trek fade into memory, Paramount did the only thing they could.
They wiped the slate clean, took an ST Encyclopedia for reference and started a new universe.
That fact the film made so much money tells me they got it right.
We, as trek fans, should embrace the Vulcan IDIC philosophy and embrace the “NuTrek”.
I am and I for one am glad that Trek is back!
Points about Canon and the fans are well taken, but I’m not convinced that ST ’09 was the best way to turn this around.
I compare this movie uncharitably to something like the Transformers movies- something I don’t think any viewer in particular was demanding to see. With enough promotion, the general public will see just about any spectacle tossed onto a screen (witness 2012).
There is a lot missing from ST ’09 (character, drama, coherency) that even the weakest TV ep had in spades.
I also felt lied to by the producers who INSISTED that this was in any way connected to everything we had see up to this point (It cleraly wasn’t).
It felt like a ST movie made by people who had never seen ST.
I was demanding to see the Transformers movies. I’ve been a fan of Transformers for 25 years.
I couldn’t agree with you more, padsbrat. I think Trek was definitely getting too stale because of the Uber fans and their obsession with “canon.” It definitely needed an overhaul and the new movie was just that. I think it’s one of the best movies to come out this year, maybe even the best. 🙂
I’ve agreed with these thoughts in some of the posts on Drexfiles over the months…I wouldn’t mind something a little more like previous Trek movies, but it’s nice to see it on the big screen again. 🙂
This IS the best movie out this year (so far), that I’ve seen anyway, and I don’t often buy movies but got this one the day it came out.
I want to give a shout out for the second best, in the light romantic comedia arena…The Proposal. Love it! Love everyone in it (Kevin was a favorite)! Okay, back to your original programming….
No, it was getting too stale because the writers weren’t allowed to take risks for fear of disturbing The Franchise, as it was quite openly called back then. Only DS9 managed to shake off some of the constraints among the latter-day shows, and I also heard that the fourth season of Enterprise was an improvement because of Manny Coto. I don’t know personally, since I saw only one episode of Enterprise aside from the pilot and skipped most seasons of Voyager, although I have seen everything else many times. Canon has nothing to do with it; just look at the frequent continuity complaints on various forums in the early years of Enterprise, especially with respect to TOS.
Personally, I don’t care if the writers create the occasional inconsistency – it’s fun trying to rationalize it. However, I care a great deal if the scripts don’t take risks because of fear that the result could be rough around the edges or downright ridiculous once in a while, sort of like TOS would openly fail with “Spock’s Brain” while also giving us many successful episodes. I couldn’t care less if Galactica’s tech appears to have been worked out in a totally haphazard fashion (a fun tech manual can still be put together with some work), or if some of the episodes aren’t that great (especially the deux-ex-machina finale) – that show took risks, and it was staffed with many people from Star Trek who were determined to make it different from either Star Trek or Star Wars.
Back to Star Trek (2009): I don’t like the convoluted “alternate reality” business, precisely because it seems to be pandering to fans who cannot see Star Trek outside the confines of established canon, whereas for a long time, dramatic requirements have required Star Trek to be covertly rebooted, with any changes explained as “refits” or “redesigns”. TMP is one such reboot, Nicholas Meyer’s take is another, TNG is yet another, with Enterprise and FC being the most obvious ones, since we didn’t exactly see technology that would be consistent with Star Trek a hundred years before the TOS era as conceived in the 60s (I’m thinking huge magnetic tapes, slide rules, bulky computers, possibly even typewriters – remember all the typewritten text in early TOS?)
I’d just reboot it openly. Instead, the writers are now saying that the timelines were identical before Nero’s incursion, but the Kelvin once again didn’t seem to be a proper TOS predecessor, more like a followup on the NX-01. If they had simply rebooted it, there would’ve been no problems. However, none of this matters as much as the writing. The movie had a lot of humor, no doubt, but it doesn’t stand up very well to multiple viewings because it feels like the writers were stitching together a number of moments they thought were cool, instead of working out the plot logically. Still, this particular iteration of Star Trek was much better than many of the shows or movies that preceded it, which justifies my curiousity in its other aspects: the design of the Enterprise and similar.
Great post, padsbrat, you hit the nail right on the head there IMHO. I think too many bashers of the new movie don’t put it into the context you describe – this movie was exactly what was needed to revive the franchise in the mainstream – I can overlook the odd weakness in the story because of that. The team did a great job on the movie, and I’ve not met a single person outside the web who’s seen it who didn’t like, nay love, it.
Sorry for the double post. Boris, I agree with your ‘just reboot it’ point too. It wasn’t necessary to tie it in to the existing continuity, though personally I don’t mind that they have found a clever way to do it.
I don’t think that is impossible to write a enjoyable, risk-taking, action packed and moving scripts and respect the previously stablished parameters, namely canon.
I also don’t think that “canon” is a restrictive cage in which there are no room for ideas.
For everything you try to write about there are a certain set of rules that defines the universe you are referring to. If you are talking about the roman empire, for instance, you can’t mention guns (unless it is to say that they weren’t invented yet), that is, if you are an efficient writer, is it clear?
It is a fact that Trek needed new blood, the franchise was too self complacent. But you see what the arrival of Manny Coto did for Enterprise in its fourth season. It wasn’t perfect, but was new and risky.
That said, there isn’t any reason to kick the chess board and start the game anew, with a fresh set of pieces and rules.
To play any game, any game at all, you are restricted by the rules to move inside that particular game. Is you don’t like them, play something else, do not tray to rewrite them for your convenience.
But, yeah man, I’m very glad to see that Trek is back. How could I not?
Well said!!! Nice to come across this one and your comments are so right on!!!!!!
Just saying it as I see it 🙂
Don’t get me wrong folks, I would love to see a new series based on the era of Trek that brought us TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT hit the TV screens. Just look at my wordpress blog, crammed with old Trek era LCARS etc. I especially loved the grey “First contact” uniforms and loved how DS9 phased into them. I miss them. I miss the Trek of old.
But, NuTrek is here. And regardless how much bitchin` we do about it, nothing will bring the old Trek back.
All we can hope for is that maybe, just maybe, the folks at Paramount will keep the ball rolling and continue to employ wonderful people like Mr Eaves to design the tech we see on screen.
Anonymous Coward, you say you thought to film was made by people who never saw or knew anything about Trek. You could not be further from the truth. Get the DVD and watch the special features. Practically the entire Production crew were/are trek fans!
You just have to realise that in order to make this film work, Paramount had to make it appealing to the masses. They tried making films appealing to the fans and what good did that do? So they bit the sour apple and made something the general public could see. By doing so, they may just have started a whole new era.
Hey, I can see my house from here!
The new Trek film was actually one of my favorites out of all the Trek films, I really loved teh soundtrack for it as well!
Agreed, the sound track is excellent. I couldn’t imagine the late great Jerry Goldsmith doing much better.
This image is canon
This image resolves nothing! Later in that atlas, there’s a pic where the Enterprise is barely the size of Texas!
Now, see, you’re not supposed to be peeking at other pages…shh! 🙂
Okay, I liked the movie…I liked it a lot I’ve to admit but still as someone who grew up with Trek-prime I did have some problems with the interior of the ship,to put it mildly, I mean a brewerey c’mon!!!! okay others have commented upon it so I’m a Johnny come lately….As for the size: Way too Large…Judging from the bridge and the windows a size somewhat approaching the original size I’d say…Point is, I do not buy the size of either the “Kelvin” or “Enterprise” as now stated…
Did you see my comment above re: this scale of the new Enterprise and how the brewery makes sense? I mean, if it’s to be 2300 miles long, I’m sure there will be pubs, sports bars and hangouts galore that will benefit from such a handy arrangement. 😀
What, no tiki lounge? I’m devestated. 😉
Yeah…ILM still doesn’t come close to Studio Gainax when it comes to scale. Last I checked, the latest Gurren Lagann incarnation IS the entire universe as we know it. The next-smallest one can stand on the Milky Way galaxy much like one would stand on a surfboard.
Quick, somebody photoshop the JJPrise’s shuttlebay scene so it’s holding the Earth inside. This is a scale-war we can’t afford to lose.
OK, I actually laughed out loud on seeing that. I was just about to write a fourth blog entry on Trek 09 to complain about the scaling (not as anally as some here might), but your image put it all into perspective. If the people making the movie could make light of it, so can I. Like the scaling is perfect in old Trek anyway (*COUGHbirdofpreyCOUGH*)
I’m still kind of bummed they just seemed to scale up the ship 2x and wash their hands of the design. But at least its not a mile long! I like my mile-long ships to come rumbling from overhead. 😉
Ok, against my wishes, the wife got the DVD from Netflix and made me sit down an watch it
Was it a fun film?
Yes – lots of action, humor and personal byplay between the characters
Was it Trek?
Boy, this one’s harder to pin down – let’s use a grading system
Characters
Chris Pine’s “Kirk” was too much angst, too flippant and too much against the grain – C-
Zac Quinto’s “Spock” so-so – the thing with him and Uhura was too pushed – C+
Karl Urban’s “Bones” was dead on – the humor, the sarcasm – A++
Simon Peg’s “Scotty” was close to the original, but grating in spots – B
Zoe Saldana’s “Uhura” was fairly much in line with the original; smarts and compassion – A
John Cho’s “Sulu” was also close to the original – A
Anton Yelchin’s “Chekov” tried to be the boy genius without the “Russian history” humor aspect of the original – C-
Technology
Kelvin – great design, well used, size seemed a little large for what seemed to me to be a scout – I thought families on starships didn’t begin till TNG – B-
Enterprise – one word – UGG – the Warp Engines look pregnant, the size is ridiculous, and please; a brewery for an engine room – quite a shock after the clean, high-tech bridge; it’s almost like the two places are two different ships – D
Phasers – it’s like they’re trying to recreate BSG’s guns; looked more like tracer rounds from a machine gun than beam weapons – even if they’re using “pulse” mode – C-
Timeline
Yes, I know things changed after Nero came through the “black-hole portal”, but wiping away parts of the original universe – Vulcan gone, Amanda gone – just grates me the wrong way – C-
Kirk becoming a Captain after what was essentially his “Middie Cruse”? I know he saved the Federation and Earth, I know he showed his ‘cajones’ on the mission; but a 5 rank jump? (Ens, Lt JG, LT, Lt Cdr, Cdr, Capt.) That’s very hard to swallow – it also changes alot of other things about the universe – I mean who’ll catch Ben Finney much up things, how will Kirk and Mitchell ever meet; not to mention Carol Marcus when Kirk was assigned to the Academy as a teacher – D
Over all impression
It’s an enjoyable action/adventure flick, but personally; I can let this alternate universe stay locked up and away from what has gone before. Not including ST:Enterprise – I don’t count that as being in the same universe either for other glaring reasons
Maybe with luck, Paramount with launch a series set in our original universe while JJ’s movies rake in the bucks to support the series
I didn’t pay to see this – other than using a Netflix slot – and I won’t pay to see the sequels so long as they’re set in JJ’s universe
That was one of my issues…Kirk getting a command and rank of Captain after graduation.
Sure, he would have got a commission as an officer but command of the newest ship in the fleet? It’s a little hard to buy. It’s like turning the keys over to a Nimitz class carrier to a first year Naval Academy graudaute…not gonna happen no matter how brilliant the graduate is.
I don’t care how big the Enterprise is “supposed” to be and whether or not it’s supported by onscreen evidence.
What interests me what the original length was when the exterior of the ship was designed, how the final length was arrived at, and what changes were made to the exterior to reflect this new length. So, John, could you fill us in on some of the behind-the-scences discussions and decisions regarding the size of the ship?
Thanks
Sorry to be nitpicky again, but I still don’t buy the scaling.
A shuttle would be as big as New York City. That’s still okay with me. After all, on two occasions in the movie, they have to carry a couple of cadets plus NuKirk’s ego. But a brewery as large as Kentucky? Come on! It may still work at the size of the brewery known as Bavaria. But someone obviously scaled the ship up on the chart after designing it at the correct scale, the true length being the distance between Iowa and San Francisco, because we know the ship was built in both places.
*Aggree’s with Bernd*
At last, some common sense injected into the debate!
Leave it to Bernd to make a funny post even funnier!
That’s right, man! You tell’em!
How come everybody is piling on Kirk for being promoted to captain, but nobody is batting an eye over McCoy becoming the Chief Medical Officer “right out of the Academy”?
He was wearing Commander Stipes at the end of the film, If I read the new uniform stripes correctly. If Pike can promote him, why can’t he promote to Kirk to First Officer (also a commander) without causing all this controversy?
Being F.O., he was within his rights to assume command and after the mission was over and they returned to Earth, Pike’s recommendation would carry a MASSIVE amount of weight.
The missing link, I feel, was that they should have shown more time passing between those two scenes. (even if it was a title card saying “Two weeks later…” or something) to show that there had been some deliberation at Starfleet about it. I mean Spock Prime needed time to get back from Delta Vega, and maybe that would have given Kirk another scene like the end of STIII where he doesn’t know whether he’s being court martialed or promoted.
my two quatloos
I don’t see as much an issue with McCoy’s promotion
Realize that his attending SFA was to get the ‘indoctrination’ into Star Fleet – he was already a full medical doctor before his enlistment
Current US military makes allowances for more rapid advancement based on prior civilian experience
And McCoy could be CMO even as a Lt Cdr – only a 3 step jump over normal graduation rank (Ens) – Kirks 5 step jump is a stretch; and being put in command of the flagship, even with what he did as the temporary commander, is an even bigger stretch
but nobody says what rank Kirk would have graduated at “normally”. did he graduate as an Ensign? Did Uhura? Did McCoy? You are presupposing that Starfleet is bound by the same rules as today’s military traditions
I think you are overthinking it. The next thing you’ll tell me is that Han Solo should never have been made a General in “Return of the Jedi” because he didn’t rise thru the ranks of military service.
Actually, Uhura is being called “lieutenant” when ordered to replace the communications officer.
Hi John:
Probably not the most appropriate post for this but, its Thanksgiving and I just wanted to say thank you for your blog. It has been a wonderful place to visit for great art, beautiful pinups, stories, and inspiration – your daughter Carlene’s fight and victory over cancer that your family faced with courage, dignity, and faith. You are one of the good guys John. So, thanks again for taking the time to blog with all of us. I wish you and your family a very happy and safe Thanksgiving.
Take care,
Richard
OK, Richard.
You’ve made me feel small and petty…, humbled.
You’re absolutely right and you are an honest to God grounded man.
I subscribe to your every wise words.
John:ditto.
ATB4U
Now, lets get back to our petty quarrels about sizes and canon and sensible screenplays!
That JJ guy won’t get to walk his way out of here so easily!
We’re Trekkies, for crying out loud, and this is what we do!
Keep on warping
One good thing about not liking the nu-enterprise is it makes scale a not very important issue. As for the movie in general maybe it will draw more kids into an interest in Star Trek. My family went and saw it and my 12 year son was the only one who liked it so maybe he will develope and interest in real Trek. It seems to be working as we have watched some of my TOS dvds and a couple of the movies together.
Going a bit off-topic here: who did the amazing spaceart for the end titles sequence in the movie? After years of watching the kind of imaginatively complex spacevistas some artists do nowadays (that never get to appear in such fine detail in scifi TV or cinema ever), it was incredible to watch those vivid compositions, so bookcover-like, on the bigscreen. Superman Returns did a bit of that in its opening credits, but it can’t touch ST-XI’s.
It would be nice if you could do a post about that someday.
“The ship is too big. If I walk, the movie will be over.”
– President Skroob